We have had very little Gopher Hockey talk around here. Granted, it’s been for good reason. But the way these guys have been playing is just plain frustrating. Watching Jeff Frazee in particular, is enough to cause anyone to throw their TV across the living room while inventing new curse words.
I missed both games this weekend, but that was probably a good thing. Saturday nights game was incredibly frustrating from the sounds of it. It’s just sad to see this team suck in the third period as much as they have.
I feel bad for Wheeler because he’s been such a great guy, that I’d like to see him leave on a high note. Instead it could be one of the lowest seasons the Gophers have had in a long time.
But I am looking forward to next year and for our future, because I think these hard times will only make them stronger. And the young guys will only get older and hopefully will learn how to finish strong.
I agree that in the long term, we’ll be better off. I think the core will be strong and will stick around. There’s definitely a solid foundation there and guys we’ll be loosing, I really won’t miss a whole lot. In fact a few of them could disappear now and I wouldn’t care a whole lot (Frazee).
We’ve been spoiled for probably too long, so we’re due for a season like this. The freshmen and sophomores are carrying a lot of weight that will be big dividends next year. I just hope the recruiting is strong next year.
I see Kangas getting the bulk of the playing time now, which I consider a very good thing. I’d like to think that he’s going to be the kind of goalie that can steal a game for us.
Carman looked pretty good this weekend too. I thought his grit really showed this week; something that this team has been missing.
God Bless the Sioux for bringing heart and soul back to the WCHA. A beautiful goal Friday night and a beat down Saturday. There should be no question that Lucia is Hakstol’s bitch.
UND fans would have you believe they’re not at fault but didn’t the same thing happen between UND and Bucky? I usually don’t point fingers but the Sioux were responsible for this melee (which isn’t to say I didn’t enjoy the intensity of the game, just some of the more bulls*it parts: 3 players teaming up on 1, standing over a player on the ice and yapping at him, and of course the fight during the handshake).
Hakstol will be fined. But his goon, Canuck players will embrace his punishment. It will motivate his team going into the last weeks. They’ll feel energized going into the McNaughton cup (where they’ll surely meet/no doubt beat Goldy again).
What do Goldy players have to reflect on? 1 point for the weekend (just like last weekend) and more affirmation of the truth of Garth Snow’s words.
Bouche, you can’t be more wrong. Hakstol is a punk and a tool, and better get fined by the league or something for his actions.
You’re just jealous b/c Hak could kick Lucia’s ass. Tony Lucia.
There are a lot of folks riding their high horses over at GPL with this same rhetoric over Hakstol giving the finger and the post-game fighting, etc., which is fine. But it really makes Gopher fans look like a bunch of whiners grasping for straws in the face of a lost season. If Lucia had done the same thing (and I KNOW, he just wouldn’t EVER! Unthinkable!), there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY Gopher fans would tolerate a Sioux fan or anyone else calling him “a punk and a tool.”
And the debates on who ganged up on whom in various melees never seem to end among these two teams. Yes, Zajac cross-checked Anderson from behind that time. Shitty thing to do to a guy. Gopher players stoop to the exact same level all the time… we’ve all watched these games for years and both teams dish it out. What do you think Anderson or Wheeler said before being crosschecked / yanked out of the handshake line? “Jolly good game, chaps, I do say. You are worthy adversaries, indeed”? Of course not. As an example, watch Bickel come into the play in this clip with the butt-end of his stick, hitting Watkins (or Malone, I can’t tell) from behind, after the whistle blew. That’s by no means the most egregious thing I could find, just the first thing that popped up.
This stuff happens when teams have a history and care about winning. I’m not sure what kind of sterilized game you’d want to see (apologies after checks? Japanese courtesy bows between coaches before the game?), but these things are what make college hockey rivalries entertaining, and are exactly why I’d rather watch the Sioux play the Gophers than some sterilized NHL matchup.
The thing that makes college hockey annoying and frustrating, on the other hand, are whiny homer fans and announcers who can’t seem to realize that their team is no more noble or sportsmanlike than any other.
If you want the league to serve as the morality cops, it would make more sense to focus on obscenities and violent threats coming from drunk/asshole fans before they worry about a coach flipping the bird. I’d rather see my son giving the ref the finger after a crappy call than seeing him scream for a player to “take his fucking head off!,” which has happened at two games this season already.
If Hakstol’s a “tool,” he’s a useful one — 3 seasons, 3 frozen fours, and more importantly, he fosters a locker-room solidarity which retains players who legitimately could have played in the NHL this season. Want to talk about “punks” and “tools”? If Okposo had any respect for his coach or his program, he’d have left prior to the season or waited three months. Frankly, whatever style of hockey the men’s Gopher team seems to support right now–both on and off the ice–ain’t the kind I want to see proliferate in this league.
I want fighting allowed without game DQs to eliminate the pussy glove in the face and non one-on-one skirmishes. Mainly the non one-on-one skirmishes because that’s bush and frankly I don’t see the Gophers doing that because we’re really not (nor have been in quite a while) a physically intimidating team. Bouche can certainly back this up.
We are 3 points out of fourth place, and just took the hottest team in the country to OT twice. Sure we’ve sucked for most of the tear, but the season is not lost.
What do you think Anderson or Wheeler said before being crosschecked
Sticks and stones…
This stuff happens when teams have a history and care about winning.
Agreed. This is why we love this rivalry. In a game like this, I really wish the players could just fight it out instead of the wrestling match that happens after ever whistle. I think a lot of this crap could have been solved with a nice Bickel/Finley fight in the first period.
I take issue with most of Alex’s post because I see myself as an objective fan (I like the Sioux for crissakes) but in this game I thought they were the pricks and the criticism is deserved. I’m not talking about the trash talking (except for yapping while standing over a fallen player) or the boarding or the cross-checking (except after the game) or fighting (except during the handshake). But if calling us homer fans is what it takes to feel like your bush-league style is acceptable, so be it.
I agree with Brian. Let Bickel and Finley fight and the non-fighters (I include Wheeler here) will cease the pansy stuff.
Alex, please setup your 2008 candidate website. I am ready to donate $2300 to your presidential campaign. YES!
Goldy fans (and many others, I admit) have entered that disgusting realm of being like Boston-based fans. Arrogance and superiority because of their misguided belief that their players, their team, their approach is holier than all others. Like last night in Arizona, it’s awesome (and MUCH MORE REWARDING) when the scrapper team prevails.
Bring back the Goldy squad where the drawing of blood on a Broten jersey triggered the 5 minute major and a MAJOR boost to the crowd. To have blood drawn, you have to be willing to draw blood. Hakstol was willing. Lucia (and his kid) were only willing to act like they were ready to throw down.
Minnesota fans love the rivalry we have with both Bucky and Sue, because of the emotions involved with both. It brings out the best in both teams involved. But there is a difference between being tough and being cheap, and there was no question which side of the line the Sioux were on Saturday night.
When it comes down to it, we all know there would be no college hockey without Minnesota, or at least none of us would watch it. Does that make us arrogant? Probably.
Comparing us to the Patriots this year is ridiculous. They were the best and got beat by a scrappy team. The Gophers are horrible and barely got beat by a great team. Being scrappy had nothing to do with it. Their playing dirty kept us in the game.
We are 3 points out of fourth place, and just took the hottest team in the country to OT twice. Sure we’ve sucked for most of the tear, but the season is not lost.
I don’t think the Gophers season is lost, but I think a lot of fans feel like it is… if not logically, at least subconsciously. There are all kinds of posts on GPL to the effect of “I’m giving up on this season” — there were a few after Friday’s loss in OT, there were some after KO left (what ironic initials!)… I’m arguing that instead of focusing on the fact that your favorite team did indeed take UND to OT two nights in a row, you whine about things like this. Case in point: Gopher hockey discussion on this website down 20-fold from last year until the “bush leaguers” from UND don’t play nice. Either y’all are too busy to talk hockey or you’re just sullying around with your tails between your legs.
To make a different but related point, while I commend your optimism on this season, taking a look at UM’s
Sticks and stones…
If it’s “Bush League” to gang up on a guy, it’s just as “Bush League” to flap your jaws all game without expecting to back it up — as I’m sure Wheeler was doing in the fricking handshake line.
Of course, I agree that fighting should be allowed or at least the game DQ rules should be changed. The reason why 3 guys seem to gang up on another–and again, I don’t see how you can take this holier-than-thou road and claim that only UND does this, it’s laughably absurd–is because guys need to be conscious of whether or not they’ll get tossed. If Kaip gets in another fight this season, he’s out for the rest of the year. So if someone is trying to start something with Kaip, Finley or Radke or whoever’s close by is going to step in and take over.
Complaining about 3-on-1 fighting is silly. There’s five guys on each team, you act like there were more Sioux players out there than Gophers. If UM decided not to retaliate, they were (legitimately) fishing for power plays. If that strategy didn’t pay off you should either be directing your ill will towards the officiating crew (legitimate, IMO) or towards your inept power play (UM was on the PP for HOW long during the first period on Saturday? With Duncan DQ’ed? And they STILL didn’t score?).
Who’s Kyle Okposo?
Whether or not you’ve decided to disown KO, I’ll reassert my point — Oshie, Chorney, Finley, and Duncan all returned this season because they feel a sense of team solidarity and school pride, two things which are obviously lacking in Minneapolis. If UND is “bush league” I’d rather watch that league than your purported version of the WCHA.
Note: In my prior post, I meant to imply that twice this season another fan (gopher fans, incidentally, though I know every team has asshole fans) was screaming obscenities at a game within 5 feet of my 3-year-old son, not that my son was the one screaming those things.
I got interrupted when editing my post and had to throw it up there before I was finished:
To make a different but related point, while I commend your optimism on this season, taking a look at UM’s
…
… schedule for the rest of the season, paired with their apparent inability to score and to play with some urgency, I’d personally stick a fork in ‘em at this point (and I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong, which I very well could be). You keep fighting the good fight and finding reasons to be positive about this season — nothing “homer”ish about that — but rationally, short of winning the final five, UM isn’t an NCAA tournament team this year and they’ve got nothing but legitimate tourney teams left on the schedule.
Stop being a troll? As in trolling for a rumble via provocative discussion? Sounds just like Coach Lucia!
Bring back YOUR pride on ice and then maybe KO acts more like Oshie. Anyone need to get out of dodge more than him? Don’t think so.
BTW, not comparing your team to the Patriots. Just you fans. Equal to those asshole Pats fans.
Most of all, and this is as sincere as hell–at least take some passion and put it behind Tubby Smith. He’s more than a coach–he’s a damn amazing person.
This is silly, and just one of many reasons I stopped talking about sports (Twins included) on this site. We’d argue over every little thing, when it would be much more fun to do it over beers instead of a keyboard. It just sucks that everyone lives so effing far away.
I find most sports fans unbearable (a recent visit to GPL reminded me why I stopped reading that site, or POI, years ago). And cut-and-paste debating on the internet on any topic is the last thing I would ever want to do.
But let me put this out there for Bouche’s enjoyment. I miss the coaches of yesteryear. Sauer being the prime example. You could hear him swearing across the arena AND see his face turn beet red as if he were about to explode. Same with Sertich. The current crop of coaches, what with their stoicism and fear of displaying any emotion lest they reflect poorly of their institution, bore me to death. I had no problem with Hakstol flipping off Adam. The few times I have genuinely liked Lucia was when he lost his cool.
YES! I miss the old barn. Few remember that big, huge MoFo with the 8,000 ton beard that would hang over the balcony (he sat in row 1 of the overhang) and SCREAM at Brooks or Beutow calling them dumbshits!
Old time hockey!
Don’t miss it. And now back to Jim Carr’s Sports Talk.
Hi. Jim Carr again.
Denis, I know that some in our audience don’t know the finer points of hockey.
Could you tell them, for example, what is icing?
Well, icing happen when the puck come down, bang, you know, before the other guys, nobody there, you know.
My arm go comes out, then the game stop then start up.
I see. What is high-sticking?
High-sticking happen when the guy take the stick, you know, and he go like that.
You don’t do that. Oh, no. Never, never.
- Why not? - Against the rules.
You stupid when you do that, some English pig with no brains…
Denis, what is slashing?
Slashing is like that, you know?
Mm-hm. And there’s a penalty for that?
- Yeah. And for trip also, you know. - Oh?
Like that. And for hook like this.
- And for spear, you know, like that. - Mm-hm.
All bad. You do that, you go to the box, you know.
Two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know.
- Mm-hm. - And then you get free.
The Chiefs are at home against Hyannisport at the War Memorial at eight.
Good seats are still available.
- A look at sports. - I think that went very well.
A couple of reasons why this set me off so much:
1) College hockey is pretty much all there is up here. It’s not like Barack Obama is staging a rally in ND.
2) I honestly think that the college game is approaching a turning point. With scoring dropping year after year and marquee players continuing to bolt, ticket prices going up, etc., we’re getting to a point where it costs as much to see a D1 college game as it does to see an NHL game. What makes college hockey stand out is the rivalries, the school pride, and the energy surrounding them. In that spirit, I think the UND men’s hockey program makes a conscious effort to emphasize those things and perpetuate that which makes college hockey unique, rather than treating themselves as an NHL minor league squad. The way to keep the good players, or at least more of them, is to play a style of hockey that keeps them invested in the school and the tradition and the competition rather than just their own development. Hak giving the finger–you know, occasionally, in the heat of battle–is evidence of this. Sterilizing the game will kill it.
3) While I too would rather be having these discussions over beers, I’ve got no hockey friends up here besides my dad — hard to find people in a PhD program also interested in hockey — and certainly no one who follows NCAA hockey as a whole, not just one team or league. So I jump on discussions like this as a rule. Plus, Moe, you called Hak nasty names. What’d you expect me to do?
Here’s a clip to watch, if you’re feeling nostalgic.
I hate the Sioux with a passion. The games this weekend galvanized that, and I think that’s the point. Classy or not, which team is to blame, who called whose mom a terrorist, my dad can beat up your dad… it’s all just talking points now.
Regardless, crosscheck after a whistle. Pulling players out of a line to fight, Bickel with a butt-end… Hardly worth defending. I have a hard time with justifying that as “old time hockey.” I think Jeff sums up my sentiments on this stuff.
Al, the ‘ol “Poor us in GF…all we have is this hockey team (that plays in the most opulent rink in all of sports…)” is too true. It just doesn’t play well around here anymore.
And Hakstol giving the ref the finger in the spirit of competition? Really? That deems it acceptable? I must be looking through the wrong-colored glasses.
Much the same way I viewed the Super Bowl too, apparently… like my “whiny, asshole” Patriot fan friends…(roll eyes). It’s very fashionable to hate on them right now. Absolutely no worse then Packer or Vikings fans, in my close observation. Meh, MOST football fans are intolerable now that I think about it. It’s really a ridiculous argument.
But back to the Gopher focus. The defense still played a hell of a game. They look poised, and minimized scoring opportunities. We know there are obvious problems with the offense. But I think the positivity starts with Gopher defense and of course goaltending. It’s not as if the Sioux dominated at any point over the weekend. That’s significant, considering what the Sioux have been doing over the last 9 games. And it’s a strange thing to finally have a game-changing goaltender.
J-Me: I didn’t say “poor me” at all regarding the lack of culture up here besides hockey, just commented that hockey is all I’ve been focusing on lately outside of school/family. I don’t know what you’re implying with “it just doesn’t play well around here anymore.”
And I can honestly say if Lucia or any other coach gave the ref the finger during a game vs. UND, I wouldn’t care a bit. If it was a habit of any coach rather than something that happened in an isolated case, then I’d be critical, but I honestly don’t have a problem with Hakstol’s actions and I actually think it makes for good entertainment / theater from a fan’s perspective, regardless of who you’re cheering for. It didn’t affect the outcome of the game at all, it wasn’t directed at a UMM player or coach or fan… I don’t think his action was particularly intelligent or mature, but it barely registers on my moral radar. It makes absolutely no sense to me how someone can advocate that student-athletes should be allowed to have fist fights and worse during the course of a game without the threat of an automatic DQ, while also claiming that extending one’s middle finger is morally reprehensible. That’s stupid logic (and again, I’m not against fighting either).
I guess so many years of watching such a perennially bush league, asshole, ignoble team has obviously tainted my ethical sensibilities… please, continue to preach and pass judgment, your holiness, in hopes that I can still be saved! Perhaps you should put together a detailed treatise: “the Gopher rules of on- and off-ice hockey etiquette for the 21st century.” I’d love to read it. Especially if it was written in Commandment form.
Al, I think your interpreting my response as a moral diatribe instead of a quick rant is understandable. I’m not here to pass judgment, nor am I condemning you, the Sioux, or Sioux fans with some hypocritical vitriol. I don’t think that those were Jeff’s intentions either.
And at no point was I elevating the Gopher squad to some moral high-ground.
After living in GF I know too well that there isn’t much else going on but hockey. I guess what I was implying is that I’ve heard it before, and maybe that singular focus yields an over-defending of the UND squad. I’m not naive enough to say the Gopher fans around here aren’t guilty of the same. Maybe it’s easier to let go, however, since there is more diversification of emotional investment. Whatever.
By way of the olive branch, Al you are more astute than most Gopher or Sioux fans. It’s a lot more fun to focus on hockey talk rather than debating the morality of hockey (unless there are beers involved as previously noted). No one wants to acquiesce to criticism of their squad’s behavior, it’s proven a fruitless debate.
So Bouche… stop provoking for the sake of it. Why don’t you come with some positivity?
The Sioux have a nice unbeaten streak rolling but, as is so often the case with these things, I don’t think their record tells the story. They’ve actually been playing some mediocre hockey as of late, but getting lucky. UAA outshot the Sioux 36 to 10 two weeks ago on Saturday but lost 3-1. UND’s shot totals are way down, and I realize that perhaps could be largely attributed to the fact that the teams they’ve beaten — Tech, Alaska — play the trap, or a variation. But the string of opponents in this unbeaten streak isn’t greatly impressive: SCSU, Tech, Mankato, Alaska, and then a Gopher team seemingly unable to score. I think the fact that UND split every series for the first 2/3 of the season is more indicative of where this team is at than the unbeaten streak or the power rankings on INCH which have UND at 3rd or something.
Some bright spots: I’m confident with Lamoreux. He keeps his head in the game and anchors the team night in and night out. Evan Trupp, even before the UM series, has seemed to get better every game. He’s scored some fantastic goals and has a great nose for the puck. Chay Genoway, who played forward at Shattuck on Duncan’s line (I think?) is playing great hockey and has gotten better throughout the year. And Oshie is a machine. He’s been playing hurt for four weeks, but you wouldn’t know it. He is incredibly strong with the puck as usual and if anything is increasing his defensive / backchecking efforts as well, which is the result of the first of the …
not so bright spots: Chorney, Genoway, and Jones are generally pretty trustworthy defensemen. Finley, LaPointe, Marto, even Bina — defensively speaking — have ranged from erratic to crummy. And the defensive parings always seem to have one person on the latter list, so there’s always at least one guy out there who’s likely to make an ill-advised pass in front of their own goal or turnover the puck.
The power play has dried up over the last two series, Duncan has not looked like the elite player he was last year in any phase of the game (even though he’s got a fair amount of points), and for some reason, the team seems to have random periods of hockey when they might as well all be drunk.
I hope this unbeaten streak continues and moreover that it gives the team confidence which elevates some of their play. They can be a nationally-competitive team, but judging from where they’re at right now, I’d guess UND is overhyped. This is currently a middle-of-the-pack team that’s received more puck-luck lately than people care to admit. With Denver faltering recently, it seems like UND has the potential to make up the games DU has in hand and lay claim to second place, which is odd.
If I provoke, it’s only because there is all this wonderful, cold refreshing beer in the Badger state that goes months and months (and years and years) without being gulped down by scary Bertogliat impersonators. Last I checked, the border inspection program between MN and WI is not stopping Moens (or the like) from driving East on I94…
Perhaps when Barb and Dean end their ongoing, 12 year boycott of Madison, Wisconsin I will be less provocative.
“We really like Madison. We should come and visit when the Sioux play…”
The face wash is fine, except that it’s overused in the college game because that’s about all they have available to them. It gets kind of old when it happens every single time the goalie covers the puck.
I accept your low blow. The childrens were enjoying the lively atmoshere (the band, the students, the proportion of fans under the age of 75, the lack of oxygen bottles, etc.) but the youngest childrens started to get cranky. The decision to leave after the 2nd period was made by the mother. I was happy for Jutts but unpleased with the scoreboard. So we went home and I consoled myself with GH3! Through the Fire and the Flames!!!
The Sioux play Bemidji on a Sat/Sun series, both games at 3 in the afternoon because of the ND H.S. state tournament.
Obviously my green goggles are never more tinted than when the Sioux are playing the Gophers, but I can see a little more clearly when playing a team like Denver, and the brawl last Saturday made absolutely no sense. After 2 periods, DU had put up 9 shots to UND’s 20 , UND was winning 3-1, and as the teams filtered into the locker rooms, Finley and Trupp (?) decide to charge into the DU crowd to start something?
Radke and the DU guy had, 8 minutes earlier, dropped the gloves which should be an automatic DQ (right?) but the refs stopped them before a punch was thrown and just gave them 10 minute misconduct penalties. Who rationalized that decision? (”no, they’ll cool off in the box, no one will fight afterwards”).
There are times to start fights and provoke the opponent, but 2/3 of the way through a dominating performance is not one of those times. And if I’m even pointing that out, then you really know something’s wrong.
The INCH podcast just talked about fighting in college hockey, and had a few interesting thoughts. Some blame to the players, some to the coaches, and some to the refs. Unfortunately, with rule changes happening every year, the refs are struggling to keep order. And with fighting, in almost every case, the refs should have stepped in to stop it from getting to where it ended up.
I rarely blame refs for missing calls, or making bad calls, because that’s bound to happen in a fast paced game, but the refs MUST be able to keep order.
And Alex, I think you’re right. Dropped gloves equal game DQ.
It is understandable that Big Ten Network would want to follow (hype) the “Kelvin Sampson is gone” press conference. But to cut from the live event (MN-WI hockey) and not offer a cut-away screen/split screen/etc. is unacceptable. Perhaps Big Ten Network was trying to not be “scooped” by ESPN. Whatever the reason, to “come back” to the hockey game “already in progress” two goals later is a joke. Thanks for ruining my Friday evening.
> Michael,
>
> Thanks for the note.
>
> It’s always a tough call whether to pre-empt LIVE games for important news
> or not.
>
> However, in this case, we felt it was necessary to cover such an important
> story, a story very pertinent to the Conference we are dedicated to
> covering.
>
> Thank you again for the note.
>
> -Big Ten Network
Wow, 8 goals and 3 points on the weekend for the Gophers. Don’t think anyone predicted scores like that.
Giving up that tying goal really sucked. We had a few good chances in the third to get a two goal lead but it just didn’t happen. But still, this was a much needed good weekend for the Gophers.
I love playing with the Sioux Sports What-if Calculator at this point in the season. Wisconsin really needed more points against MN since they only have one series left this year. They are currently in 4th, but could easily lose home ice for the first round by any of the Minnesota teams.
Current Standings:
Team GP Pts
CC 24 37
UND 24 33
Denver 24 31
UW 26 25
Mankato 24 24
SCSU 24 24
UMD 24 21
UMN 24 20
MTech 24 18
AA 26 11
My biggest issue with the tournament is that Lakeville is in Sec 1 with Rochester, and Anoka is in Sec 8 with Duluth. Suburban teams should not be part of those sections, but it came to be because of a lack of AA teams in both areas. Go back to 1 class, let 16 teams into the tourney and let them go at it. Now is the time.
The A teams in the metro area will be the only teams to suffer but most of the tourney teams are private school and should be playing up anyways. Outstate A teams will still be able to compete against the AA outstate teams.
Here is a list of committed players in the tourney:
Edina: Zach Budish (Minnesota), Marshall Everson (Harvard), Joe Gleason (North Dakota) Benilde-St. Margaret’s: Chris Student (Northeastern), Matt Berglund (Providence) Roseau: Aaron Ness (Minnesota), Mike Lee (St. Cloud), Nick Oliver (St. Cloud)
Mankato West: Corey Leivermann (Mankato) Blake: Josh Birkholz (Minnesota), Jack Barnes (Army) St. Thomas Academy: Ryan Walters (Minnesota) St. Cloud Cathedral: Nate Schmidt (Minnesota) Little Falls: Ben Hanowski (St. Cloud) Warroad: Bryce Ravndalen (St. Cloud)
Roseau just barely beat Blaine tonight, getting 4 goals and 2 assists from Tyler Landman in a 8-2 win. I really thought Blaine had a chance, especially after only losing 1-0 up in Baudette Bay earlier this year. Though maybe the -40 temps had more to do with that game then anything else.
edina’s on a mission this year after being ousted by rapids last year in the 1st rnd. roseau should be able to handle the hornets, but edina, like i said, is on a mission. should be the game of the year. maybe the super bowl all over again??
Hey Lou, I think you are in favor of the city teams a little too much. Your state hockey tourney refs don’t call the serious penalties they should be.There have been pleanty elbows & hooking in the BSM/EDINA. Now HillMurry /Roseau lots of serious penelties on camera and not called. They would have made a difference in outcome of alot of these games! You and the Hockey League should make sure you have more whistles on the ice. The tourney is always great,and all the teams should feel special just for making it that far!
Well, don’t know what happened to Roseau last night. I watched the stream…of course I missed the Edina game.
Seemed that the Rams bench was just a little too short. Yes, the Hill Murray goalie made some saves…but he didn’t make any stunning saves that defied the laws of physics. Hard to understand.
Well, that sucks. Roseau was completely out-muscled last night. Congrats to Hill Murray on playing a perfect game and beating what everyone thought was a perfect team.
Today’s final should be really good, maybe even a better matchup then Edina/Roseau. Edina and Hill are both big and strong, and they bring a history.
The third place game should also be really fun to watch. Both Benilde and Roseau and quick and talented, so the game should be wide open. I just hope Roseau cares enough to play to win.
Seemed that the Rams bench was just a little too short.
Good point. Roseau likes to play their stars as much as possible. Ness was out there almost every other shift. He’s good, but you need fresh legs out there when you are getting beat up. By the third period, Ness was losing edges on every turn. That doesn’t happen when you aren’t exhausted.
Hill won by being physical. I’ve read that they normally aren’t a physical team, but did last night to take Roseau out of their game. The Rams want to play an up-tempo game and showcase their skill, but it’s hard to do that when you are getting hit every time, before and after the whistle.
Hill reminded me a lot of North Dakota. Play physical, maybe even cheap, but it was very effective.
Did you watch the UND game last night? People on SiouxSports were really upset with the way they played. Was it that bad? I have to think that losing last night was a good thing. I’m not a fan of going into the tourney with a big winning streak like that, but it will be forgotten as long as they take care of business tonight.
As for the Gophers, they should have won on Friday night, should have lost last night, so I have no idea what will happen tonight. I like our chances, as maybe we’ve finally crossed that OT hurdle (first OT win, now 1-4-9), but who the f*ck knows anymore.
I really want the Gophers to win tonight as I’m just not ready for the season to be over and I don’t want tonight to be Wheeler’s last game (assuming he leaves). But it’s been a long year for the Gophers and maybe we should just be put out of our misery.
I was at Friday’s game but I had to miss last night and tonight’s games because my wife’s friends decided to have a baby shower in Minneapolis…. [ahem]. I alternated between the SCSU/UW game and the UM/MSUM game. My dad was at the UND game and said the Sioux were pretty complacent in the third period. Friday’s UND/Tech game was an excellent team effort by the Sioux. Shots after the first period on Friday were UND 14 and Tech 0. I just logged on to check the UND/Tech score, it looks like a repeat of last night - 2-1 Sioux after 2, but shots are 21-6 in favor of UND.
I saw the hit on Tom Pohl, that was awful to watch. I hope they were just being cautious and that it’s nothing serious.
I’m going to San Francisco for a conference on Tuesday and I won’t get back until after midnight on Saturday morning (technically Saturday) — so the only games I’ll be around for are Saturday’s. If UND makes it to the championship I’ll probably go to it.
That first OT period was crazy. Great action for the full 20 minutes. Seems like Zacharias (sp) is more likely to give one up, but the Mavericks seem to be getting better scoring opportunities.
How green is your beer? No, no. I don’t mean that dyed crap in the plastic cup that you got at O’Gara’s last night. I mean the brewers who “use organic ingredients and incorporate renewable energy, efficiency and recycling into their businesses (Portland Press-Herald).”
Check out this list from the Sierra Club.
Wow, what a great game last night. Gophers score in the first 20 seconds and the final 13 seconds of the game. Kangas is just playing out of his mind right now.
Some have said all season that the Gophers were just a key goal in quite a few games from being one of the top in the conference. Looks like we finally got our bounces last night and it couldn’t have happened at a better time.
That said… I hope we lose tonight. We really need the rest, and, assuming the Sioux win today, I’d much rather watch them play a fresh CC for the championship then against a Gopher team that wouldn’t have much left in the tank.
Or maybe we are a team of destiny and will win it all!
Funny — after picking the first round of the WCHA playoffs perfectly, I picked the final five perfectly wrong, choosing DU to lose twice, SCSU to win twice, and CC to beat UND for the championship. Oh well. Good games this weekend, I think it really showed how closely matched WCHA teams are.
Here’s my NCAA picks:
East — Michigan over Niagara, SCSU over Clarkson
West — UNH over Notre Dame, CC over Mich. St.
Midwest — UND over Princeton, Denver over WI
Northeast — Miami over Air Force, BC over MN
Frozen Four participants — Michigan, CC, UND, BC
If it’s UM vs CC and UND vs BC, I pick Michigan vs. UND and Michigan to win
If it’s UM vs UND and CC vs BC, I pick UND vs CC and UND to win
I was at the Saturday third place game between CC and UND, and UND looked very good, but it so hard to judge a team in that game. Obviously, MN had success because of Kangas, but that just showed that they are (and have been all season) a team that just needs a few bounces to go their way and they can beat anyone.
I’ll pick the exact same regional games as you, but MN over BC.
East — Michigan over Niagara, SCSU over Clarkson
West — UNH over Notre Dame, CC over Mich. St.
Midwest — UND over Princeton, Denver over WI
Northeast — Miami over Air Force, MN over BC
And the Frozen Four would be Michigan, CC, DU, MN
According this USCHO bracket (pdf), the FF is Northeast vs Midwest and East vs West. So, DU over MN (again) and Michigan over CC. Michigan is the champion.
Here’s a question for Alex. If the Sioux happen to win it all, how does this team rank with some of the Sioux teams from the last 5-7 years?
Better goaltending? Parise was pretty darn good as well.
Better scorers? I’d say Toews, Parise, Bochenski were all better then Oshie.
I think what it would show is just how unimportant talent really is come tournament time. It’s all about getting the breaks, getting lucky, and playing against the right opponent in the right year.
There has been a lot of controversy about Mankato not making the NCAAs, while the Badgers, a sub .500 team, did. Here is the best explanation of what happened - and funny that it came from a guy that just started covering college hockey.
This is the first of many rants I am brewing in my crazed brain re: Bucky making it in and the Mavericks being screwed over.
From Mr. Hartman, we have this:
Selected by computer
As chairman of the NCAA men’s hockey selection committee, Gophers athletic director Joel Maturi is getting some criticism because Wisconsin received an at-large bid to the tournament while Minnesota State Mankato did not. But the teams that get the bids are determined by computer rankings, meaning the sub-.500 Badgers (15-16-7) were the sixth WCHA team in the tournament, rather than the Mavericks (19-16-4).
“We, as a committee, seed the people, but we have nothing to do with which 16 teams make the field. So, this was all determined by the PairWise numbers,” Maturi said.
“For hockey, it’s completely done by that, and as it turned out, going into the weekend Minnesota State Mankato was ahead of Wisconsin, but due to who won and who didn’t win, and it has to do with your record, your record vs. your opponents and your opponents vs. their opponents. And because of that, Wisconsin was able to make the tournament.”
OK, Joel, if it’s “completely done by that” then why even have a committee? What purpose is there to have a committee? Seeding only? Very hard to believe that there is NOTHING subjective that goes into the process.
1) How is Bucky allowed to play at home? Is that not subjective? Why wasn’t Goldy “rewarded” with a trip to the Kohl Center as the higher PWR team? Certainly would be easier for Goldy’s aged fanbase to drive 4 1/2 hours to Madison (well, not the Moens because it might snow…unless they were going to Florida, in which case they just might drive) than to fly out east.
2) People, let’s get something straight–PWR represents an algorithm. The algorithm SUBJECTIVELY ranks certain components. The ranks can be considered a proxy for regression coefficients–component x is slightly more important than component y by a factor of z%. The coefficients, when combined together into an equation, deliver a PWR value. Ever heard of the BCS from college football? You know the deal where every other year they have to tweak the formula because some SEC school gets screwed over in favor of Ohio State or Oklahoma? Bad coefficients.
3) Bucky lost to the Mavs twice, tied once, and won once. The Mavs, who should have beaten a tenacious (and soon to be out of gas) Goldy team, were a superior squad to both Goldy and Bucky all season. Head to head, obviously a factor in PWR, does not outweigh common opponent weights? RPI? RPI? Confirm that one more time–RPI? Strength of schedule in college fucking hockey? Are you kidding me? That is not subjective? Tell me–how does the RPI factor in the migration of stud players for the World Juniors? Is there a “Blake Wheeler playing/not playing” flag that gets triggered when two Goldy common opponents are compared?
Keep in mind, I’m a Bucky season ticket holder. I’m all for Bucky kicking ass. But fair is fair–this is just plain wrong.
If you would have read the link I posted and emailed you, you would realize that it wasn’t even between Bucky and Mankato. Both teams should have been in. Notre Dame should have been left out and not Mankato.
1) How is Bucky allowed to play at home?
You do realize that they are the host school and were predetermined to host if they got in. Sam with CC. No shady dealings here.
Quit your complaining, you’re starting to sound like a Sioux fan.
Let me also add that the coaches all agreed to this system when it was established. Will this spark changes? I hope it will and expect it to. But once you agree on a system, you can’t just change it because you want to.
Oh, and another thing. Had the refs not blown that call in the Bucky game against Denver, this would all be a lost point anyway. Bucky would be in.
Here’s a question for Alex. If the Sioux happen to win it all, how does this team rank with some of the Sioux teams from the last 5-7 years?
Better goaltending? Parise was pretty darn good as well.
Better scorers? I’d say Toews, Parise, Bochenski were all better then Oshie.
I would be floored if the Sioux won it all this year, mostly because of my own gut feeling watching this team all season long. You know that sense you get when your team is really, really good? Hasn’t happened much for me this year. UND strung together a lot of wins, but their schedule was more difficult in the first half of the year, and a lot of those wins were very close.
Hypothetically, if they won, I’d say they’d be on par with the 2000 team that won it all, surprising a lot of people.. Blake, Panzer brothers, Commodore, Goehring…
but in the last 5-7 years? Not sure. Statistically, this has been the best defensive team in UND history, second in WCHA history to a DU team in the late 1960s. So I suppose that would be their legacy.
I liked Jordan Parise better than Lamoreux (and Goehring better than both of them combined), but I think Oshie is really, really good. He’s had an injured hip for weeks, and has been playing during this entire streak at 60%, according to coaching staff. Bochenski scored a lot of goals but he wasn’t a playmaker, more of a garbage goal guy. Toews and Parise have more talent than Oshie, I think, but they weren’t as strong on the puck as Oshie is, and in a league where playmakers are continually mugged, I think Oshie copes much better. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen him get knocked down in the corners with the puck when he then gets up and still maintains possession, being hacked the whole time. Plus he’s more of a two-way guy than Toews. I think Oshie is the best UND forward, all things considered, since Jason Blake. I could compare stats between Toews, Parise, Bochenski, and Oshie but I sense that Henry is getting into trouble.
What I saw of Bochenski I remember him a sniper, not really a garbage guy. Lots of wristers from the circles and the slot. He made his mark with his shots, not his skates. Am I crazy?
Still, I think the Sioux in the finals wouldn’t be surprising at all. They’ve got all aspects of the game working for them when they want it to. Offense, defense, the physical game. It’s all strong with them.
Of course I read the link you sent before I posted. Does that link answer anything? No. I don’t care that Bucky was not the issue, but Notre Dame vs. Mankato was. I don’t care that Bucky had a sub-500 record. I don’t care that Bucky was the team “screwed over” last year (Mike Eaves is such an ass to bring that up and put it in Jutting’s face).
None of those things matter. Bucky does not deserve to be in the final 16 ahead of Mankato. Coaches agreed in advance to an algorithm? Big hairy deal. Who made up the algorithm? I assure you that we could make an algorithm, just like USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin.htm).
We could create our own version of a poll with SAS (http://www.sas.com/).
Like the Coaches Poll or the former NYTimes Poll or whatever other deceased poll, our poll could, for a period of time, advance into the NCAA college hockey landscape and become a determining factor in how the teams get picked.
Hockey has a chance, unlike basketball and unlike football, to allow the season’s best teams to compete for the championship. Because it is not viewed as a revenue sport, it is less encumbered by the Jim Delaneys/$$$ of college sports. Instead, you have Bucky playing at home? Is that not an advantage? Having the Final 5 at the Xcel kind of gives an edge to Goldy (year in/year out), don’t ya think? How a marginal team makes the final 16 and then gets handed home ice for the weekend? Where in any of this madness is there objectivity?
The other thing which influences my earlier comments is that, living in St. Paul, I barely had a chance to see the Sioux play from 2001-2005 except when they’d play the Gophers on FSN, when they were in the Final Five, or when I happened to be passing through GF. The last two seasons, living up here, I’ve only missed about 6 home games.
My memories of Bochenski are seeing him camped on the left wing, one-timing passes from across the crease and rebounds from slapshots. I don’t remember much of him as a sniper but again I didn’t see him play all that often.
I should clarify that I don’t think Oshie is more talented than Parise or Toews, but more suited for success in the WCHA than they were.
Alex
I would be floored if the Sioux won it all this year, mostly because of my own gut feeling watching this team all season long. You know that sense you get when your team is really, really good? Hasn’t happened much for me this year.
Are you starting to get that feeling now? Nice win for the Sioux.
Wow. To go from a 64 to a 3 and to still make the NCAAs was quite a feat for this team. Thank you Seniors (and maybe Wheeler) for a wonderful career as Gophers.
Are you starting to get that feeling now? Nice win for the Sioux.
That was an exciting win, but not the kind of win that inspires confidence — this formula of playing the other team even for period 1, coming out with lead boots for period 2, and then firing up when their back is to the wall in period 3 has been happening all season long. I would love to see season-long stats comparing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd periods for UND — period 2 has been terrible all year long.
I am elated with both of those wins in the regional and I’m looking forward to the UND/BC matchup — 2 teams who have come up empty handed in recent years despite repeated trips to the frozen four — but I’m still not particularly confident UND will win because they so rarely turn in a complete game, playing for 60 minutes with the intensity they’re capable of. I do, however, feel even better about Lamoreux. Stood on his head.
I would love to see Notre Dame beat Michigan, too.
Good weekend of hockey, even though the WCHA didn’t fare too well. I’d hate to be a Miami fan almost as much as I’d hate to be a SCSU fan… what are they in the NCAA’s now, 0-8? 0-10?
You know, if I were the government, and my clandestine agencies had discovered a massive threat to America, to be perpetrated via the airlines once again (not likely, but hypothetically), and I needed to shut down air travel, but I hadn’t been able to track down the suspects yet, I would totally run a spin story about thousands of planes needing to be grounded for outdated technology concerns. Then I would take a fine-tooth comb to the remaining flights looking for terrorists to impatiently show their hands.
You know, if … the government … had discovered a massive threat to America, … I would totally run a spin story about thousands of planes needing to be grounded for outdated technology concerns.
A valid and demonstrable “massive threat to America” is the Bush Administration’s wet dream. The last thing they would want to do is cover it up in the interests of preventing panic and fear. This administration’s engine is fueled with the stuff.
Wow, that was ugly. Lammy let in some softies as BC was able to counter the Sioux’s strong fore check with some quick goals at the beginning of the game.
Michigan vs Notre Dame started out just as bad, ND up 3-0, but Michigan fought back and it’s now 3-2
I thought I had posted this long ago…don’t think it made it through the Censor’s filters. So, I’ll try again and add a second inquiry.
1) The question must now be asked. Pheonix Coyotes. Wayne Gretzky. Kyle Turris. Blake Wheeler. Why is the former one and done but the latter still remains an undergrad? Were the comments about the long-haired hippy coach on target? Is Garth Snow a truth-teller?
2) What happened to Guentzel as your assistant coach??
1. Which would you rather have? In five years are you even going to remember you had a player like Turris? And Wheeler is no longer an undergrad. He is taking grad school classes, meaning he graduated in three years.
2. Don’t know yet. Haven’t heard any rumors of bad feelings or anything like that. He may be a head coach somewhere else soon, or not, we don’t know yet.
Unbelievable. I went to bed after regulation, but it looked like it wasn’t going to end anytime soon. So glad that the Stars won. For some reason I’m ok with a Texas team winning, but not one from Cali.
We have had very little Gopher Hockey talk around here. Granted, it’s been for good reason. But the way these guys have been playing is just plain frustrating. Watching Jeff Frazee in particular, is enough to cause anyone to throw their TV across the living room while inventing new curse words.
I missed both games this weekend, but that was probably a good thing. Saturday nights game was incredibly frustrating from the sounds of it. It’s just sad to see this team suck in the third period as much as they have.
I feel bad for Wheeler because he’s been such a great guy, that I’d like to see him leave on a high note. Instead it could be one of the lowest seasons the Gophers have had in a long time.
But I am looking forward to next year and for our future, because I think these hard times will only make them stronger. And the young guys will only get older and hopefully will learn how to finish strong.
I agree that in the long term, we’ll be better off. I think the core will be strong and will stick around. There’s definitely a solid foundation there and guys we’ll be loosing, I really won’t miss a whole lot. In fact a few of them could disappear now and I wouldn’t care a whole lot (Frazee).
We’ve been spoiled for probably too long, so we’re due for a season like this. The freshmen and sophomores are carrying a lot of weight that will be big dividends next year. I just hope the recruiting is strong next year.
I see Kangas getting the bulk of the playing time now, which I consider a very good thing. I’d like to think that he’s going to be the kind of goalie that can steal a game for us.
Carman looked pretty good this weekend too. I thought his grit really showed this week; something that this team has been missing.
I hope the recruits aren’t too good next year. That’s why we got in this mess in the first place
God Bless the Sioux for bringing heart and soul back to the WCHA. A beautiful goal Friday night and a beat down Saturday. There should be no question that Lucia is Hakstol’s bitch.
SIOUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UND fans would have you believe they’re not at fault but didn’t the same thing happen between UND and Bucky? I usually don’t point fingers but the Sioux were responsible for this melee (which isn’t to say I didn’t enjoy the intensity of the game, just some of the more bulls*it parts: 3 players teaming up on 1, standing over a player on the ice and yapping at him, and of course the fight during the handshake).
Bouche, you can’t be more wrong. Hakstol is a punk and a tool, and better get fined by the league or something for his actions.
Hakstol will be fined. But his goon, Canuck players will embrace his punishment. It will motivate his team going into the last weeks. They’ll feel energized going into the McNaughton cup (where they’ll surely meet/no doubt beat Goldy again).
What do Goldy players have to reflect on? 1 point for the weekend (just like last weekend) and more affirmation of the truth of Garth Snow’s words.
Way to go NEW YORK GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!
You’re just jealous b/c Hak could kick Lucia’s ass. Tony Lucia.
There are a lot of folks riding their high horses over at GPL with this same rhetoric over Hakstol giving the finger and the post-game fighting, etc., which is fine. But it really makes Gopher fans look like a bunch of whiners grasping for straws in the face of a lost season. If Lucia had done the same thing (and I KNOW, he just wouldn’t EVER! Unthinkable!), there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY Gopher fans would tolerate a Sioux fan or anyone else calling him “a punk and a tool.”
And the debates on who ganged up on whom in various melees never seem to end among these two teams. Yes, Zajac cross-checked Anderson from behind that time. Shitty thing to do to a guy. Gopher players stoop to the exact same level all the time… we’ve all watched these games for years and both teams dish it out. What do you think Anderson or Wheeler said before being crosschecked / yanked out of the handshake line? “Jolly good game, chaps, I do say. You are worthy adversaries, indeed”? Of course not. As an example, watch Bickel come into the play in this clip with the butt-end of his stick, hitting Watkins (or Malone, I can’t tell) from behind, after the whistle blew. That’s by no means the most egregious thing I could find, just the first thing that popped up.
This stuff happens when teams have a history and care about winning. I’m not sure what kind of sterilized game you’d want to see (apologies after checks? Japanese courtesy bows between coaches before the game?), but these things are what make college hockey rivalries entertaining, and are exactly why I’d rather watch the Sioux play the Gophers than some sterilized NHL matchup.
The thing that makes college hockey annoying and frustrating, on the other hand, are whiny homer fans and announcers who can’t seem to realize that their team is no more noble or sportsmanlike than any other.
If you want the league to serve as the morality cops, it would make more sense to focus on obscenities and violent threats coming from drunk/asshole fans before they worry about a coach flipping the bird. I’d rather see my son giving the ref the finger after a crappy call than seeing him scream for a player to “take his fucking head off!,” which has happened at two games this season already.
If Hakstol’s a “tool,” he’s a useful one — 3 seasons, 3 frozen fours, and more importantly, he fosters a locker-room solidarity which retains players who legitimately could have played in the NHL this season. Want to talk about “punks” and “tools”? If Okposo had any respect for his coach or his program, he’d have left prior to the season or waited three months. Frankly, whatever style of hockey the men’s Gopher team seems to support right now–both on and off the ice–ain’t the kind I want to see proliferate in this league.
I want fighting allowed without game DQs to eliminate the pussy glove in the face and non one-on-one skirmishes. Mainly the non one-on-one skirmishes because that’s bush and frankly I don’t see the Gophers doing that because we’re really not (nor have been in quite a while) a physically intimidating team. Bouche can certainly back this up.
We are 3 points out of fourth place, and just took the hottest team in the country to OT twice. Sure we’ve sucked for most of the tear, but the season is not lost.
Sticks and stones…
Agreed. This is why we love this rivalry. In a game like this, I really wish the players could just fight it out instead of the wrestling match that happens after ever whistle. I think a lot of this crap could have been solved with a nice Bickel/Finley fight in the first period.
Who’s Kyle Okposo?
I take issue with most of Alex’s post because I see myself as an objective fan (I like the Sioux for crissakes) but in this game I thought they were the pricks and the criticism is deserved. I’m not talking about the trash talking (except for yapping while standing over a fallen player) or the boarding or the cross-checking (except after the game) or fighting (except during the handshake). But if calling us homer fans is what it takes to feel like your bush-league style is acceptable, so be it.
I agree with Brian. Let Bickel and Finley fight and the non-fighters (I include Wheeler here) will cease the pansy stuff.
Alex, please setup your 2008 candidate website. I am ready to donate $2300 to your presidential campaign. YES!
Goldy fans (and many others, I admit) have entered that disgusting realm of being like Boston-based fans. Arrogance and superiority because of their misguided belief that their players, their team, their approach is holier than all others. Like last night in Arizona, it’s awesome (and MUCH MORE REWARDING) when the scrapper team prevails.
Bring back the Goldy squad where the drawing of blood on a Broten jersey triggered the 5 minute major and a MAJOR boost to the crowd. To have blood drawn, you have to be willing to draw blood. Hakstol was willing. Lucia (and his kid) were only willing to act like they were ready to throw down.
Bouche. Stop being a troll.
Minnesota fans love the rivalry we have with both Bucky and Sue, because of the emotions involved with both. It brings out the best in both teams involved. But there is a difference between being tough and being cheap, and there was no question which side of the line the Sioux were on Saturday night.
When it comes down to it, we all know there would be no college hockey without Minnesota, or at least none of us would watch it. Does that make us arrogant? Probably.
Comparing us to the Patriots this year is ridiculous. They were the best and got beat by a scrappy team. The Gophers are horrible and barely got beat by a great team. Being scrappy had nothing to do with it. Their playing dirty kept us in the game.
I don’t think the Gophers season is lost, but I think a lot of fans feel like it is… if not logically, at least subconsciously. There are all kinds of posts on GPL to the effect of “I’m giving up on this season” — there were a few after Friday’s loss in OT, there were some after KO left (what ironic initials!)… I’m arguing that instead of focusing on the fact that your favorite team did indeed take UND to OT two nights in a row, you whine about things like this. Case in point: Gopher hockey discussion on this website down 20-fold from last year until the “bush leaguers” from UND don’t play nice. Either y’all are too busy to talk hockey or you’re just sullying around with your tails between your legs.
To make a different but related point, while I commend your optimism on this season, taking a look at UM’s
If it’s “Bush League” to gang up on a guy, it’s just as “Bush League” to flap your jaws all game without expecting to back it up — as I’m sure Wheeler was doing in the fricking handshake line.
Of course, I agree that fighting should be allowed or at least the game DQ rules should be changed. The reason why 3 guys seem to gang up on another–and again, I don’t see how you can take this holier-than-thou road and claim that only UND does this, it’s laughably absurd–is because guys need to be conscious of whether or not they’ll get tossed. If Kaip gets in another fight this season, he’s out for the rest of the year. So if someone is trying to start something with Kaip, Finley or Radke or whoever’s close by is going to step in and take over.
Complaining about 3-on-1 fighting is silly. There’s five guys on each team, you act like there were more Sioux players out there than Gophers. If UM decided not to retaliate, they were (legitimately) fishing for power plays. If that strategy didn’t pay off you should either be directing your ill will towards the officiating crew (legitimate, IMO) or towards your inept power play (UM was on the PP for HOW long during the first period on Saturday? With Duncan DQ’ed? And they STILL didn’t score?).
Whether or not you’ve decided to disown KO, I’ll reassert my point — Oshie, Chorney, Finley, and Duncan all returned this season because they feel a sense of team solidarity and school pride, two things which are obviously lacking in Minneapolis. If UND is “bush league” I’d rather watch that league than your purported version of the WCHA.
Note: In my prior post, I meant to imply that twice this season another fan (gopher fans, incidentally, though I know every team has asshole fans) was screaming obscenities at a game within 5 feet of my 3-year-old son, not that my son was the one screaming those things.
I got interrupted when editing my post and had to throw it up there before I was finished:
…
… schedule for the rest of the season, paired with their apparent inability to score and to play with some urgency, I’d personally stick a fork in ‘em at this point (and I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong, which I very well could be). You keep fighting the good fight and finding reasons to be positive about this season — nothing “homer”ish about that — but rationally, short of winning the final five, UM isn’t an NCAA tournament team this year and they’ve got nothing but legitimate tourney teams left on the schedule.
Stop being a troll? As in trolling for a rumble via provocative discussion? Sounds just like Coach Lucia!
Bring back YOUR pride on ice and then maybe KO acts more like Oshie. Anyone need to get out of dodge more than him? Don’t think so.
BTW, not comparing your team to the Patriots. Just you fans. Equal to those asshole Pats fans.
Most of all, and this is as sincere as hell–at least take some passion and put it behind Tubby Smith. He’s more than a coach–he’s a damn amazing person.
This is silly, and just one of many reasons I stopped talking about sports (Twins included) on this site. We’d argue over every little thing, when it would be much more fun to do it over beers instead of a keyboard. It just sucks that everyone lives so effing far away.
I find most sports fans unbearable (a recent visit to GPL reminded me why I stopped reading that site, or POI, years ago). And cut-and-paste debating on the internet on any topic is the last thing I would ever want to do.
But let me put this out there for Bouche’s enjoyment. I miss the coaches of yesteryear. Sauer being the prime example. You could hear him swearing across the arena AND see his face turn beet red as if he were about to explode. Same with Sertich. The current crop of coaches, what with their stoicism and fear of displaying any emotion lest they reflect poorly of their institution, bore me to death. I had no problem with Hakstol flipping off Adam. The few times I have genuinely liked Lucia was when he lost his cool.
YES! I miss the old barn. Few remember that big, huge MoFo with the 8,000 ton beard that would hang over the balcony (he sat in row 1 of the overhang) and SCREAM at Brooks or Beutow calling them dumbshits!
Old time hockey!
Don’t miss it. And now back to Jim Carr’s Sports Talk.
Hi. Jim Carr again.
Denis, I know that some in our audience don’t know the finer points of hockey.
Could you tell them, for example, what is icing?
Well, icing happen when the puck come down, bang, you know, before the other guys, nobody there, you know.
My arm go comes out, then the game stop then start up.
I see. What is high-sticking?
High-sticking happen when the guy take the stick, you know, and he go like that.
You don’t do that. Oh, no. Never, never.
- Why not? - Against the rules.
You stupid when you do that, some English pig with no brains…
Denis, what is slashing?
Slashing is like that, you know?
Mm-hm. And there’s a penalty for that?
- Yeah. And for trip also, you know. - Oh?
Like that. And for hook like this.
- And for spear, you know, like that. - Mm-hm.
All bad. You do that, you go to the box, you know.
Two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know.
- Mm-hm. - And then you get free.
The Chiefs are at home against Hyannisport at the War Memorial at eight.
Good seats are still available.
- A look at sports. - I think that went very well.
All right, all right, olive branch time.
A couple of reasons why this set me off so much:
1) College hockey is pretty much all there is up here. It’s not like Barack Obama is staging a rally in ND.
2) I honestly think that the college game is approaching a turning point. With scoring dropping year after year and marquee players continuing to bolt, ticket prices going up, etc., we’re getting to a point where it costs as much to see a D1 college game as it does to see an NHL game. What makes college hockey stand out is the rivalries, the school pride, and the energy surrounding them. In that spirit, I think the UND men’s hockey program makes a conscious effort to emphasize those things and perpetuate that which makes college hockey unique, rather than treating themselves as an NHL minor league squad. The way to keep the good players, or at least more of them, is to play a style of hockey that keeps them invested in the school and the tradition and the competition rather than just their own development. Hak giving the finger–you know, occasionally, in the heat of battle–is evidence of this. Sterilizing the game will kill it.
3) While I too would rather be having these discussions over beers, I’ve got no hockey friends up here besides my dad — hard to find people in a PhD program also interested in hockey — and certainly no one who follows NCAA hockey as a whole, not just one team or league. So I jump on discussions like this as a rule. Plus, Moe, you called Hak nasty names. What’d you expect me to do?
Here’s a clip to watch, if you’re feeling nostalgic.
I hate the Sioux with a passion. The games this weekend galvanized that, and I think that’s the point. Classy or not, which team is to blame, who called whose mom a terrorist, my dad can beat up your dad… it’s all just talking points now.
Regardless, crosscheck after a whistle. Pulling players out of a line to fight, Bickel with a butt-end… Hardly worth defending. I have a hard time with justifying that as “old time hockey.” I think Jeff sums up my sentiments on this stuff.
Al, the ‘ol “Poor us in GF…all we have is this hockey team (that plays in the most opulent rink in all of sports…)” is too true. It just doesn’t play well around here anymore.
And Hakstol giving the ref the finger in the spirit of competition? Really? That deems it acceptable? I must be looking through the wrong-colored glasses.
Much the same way I viewed the Super Bowl too, apparently… like my “whiny, asshole” Patriot fan friends…(roll eyes). It’s very fashionable to hate on them right now. Absolutely no worse then Packer or Vikings fans, in my close observation. Meh, MOST football fans are intolerable now that I think about it. It’s really a ridiculous argument.
But back to the Gopher focus. The defense still played a hell of a game. They look poised, and minimized scoring opportunities. We know there are obvious problems with the offense. But I think the positivity starts with Gopher defense and of course goaltending. It’s not as if the Sioux dominated at any point over the weekend. That’s significant, considering what the Sioux have been doing over the last 9 games. And it’s a strange thing to finally have a game-changing goaltender.
J-Me: I didn’t say “poor me” at all regarding the lack of culture up here besides hockey, just commented that hockey is all I’ve been focusing on lately outside of school/family. I don’t know what you’re implying with “it just doesn’t play well around here anymore.”
And I can honestly say if Lucia or any other coach gave the ref the finger during a game vs. UND, I wouldn’t care a bit. If it was a habit of any coach rather than something that happened in an isolated case, then I’d be critical, but I honestly don’t have a problem with Hakstol’s actions and I actually think it makes for good entertainment / theater from a fan’s perspective, regardless of who you’re cheering for. It didn’t affect the outcome of the game at all, it wasn’t directed at a UMM player or coach or fan… I don’t think his action was particularly intelligent or mature, but it barely registers on my moral radar. It makes absolutely no sense to me how someone can advocate that student-athletes should be allowed to have fist fights and worse during the course of a game without the threat of an automatic DQ, while also claiming that extending one’s middle finger is morally reprehensible. That’s stupid logic (and again, I’m not against fighting either).
I guess so many years of watching such a perennially bush league, asshole, ignoble team has obviously tainted my ethical sensibilities… please, continue to preach and pass judgment, your holiness, in hopes that I can still be saved! Perhaps you should put together a detailed treatise: “the Gopher rules of on- and off-ice hockey etiquette for the 21st century.” I’d love to read it. Especially if it was written in Commandment form.
Al, I think your interpreting my response as a moral diatribe instead of a quick rant is understandable. I’m not here to pass judgment, nor am I condemning you, the Sioux, or Sioux fans with some hypocritical vitriol. I don’t think that those were Jeff’s intentions either.
And at no point was I elevating the Gopher squad to some moral high-ground.
After living in GF I know too well that there isn’t much else going on but hockey. I guess what I was implying is that I’ve heard it before, and maybe that singular focus yields an over-defending of the UND squad. I’m not naive enough to say the Gopher fans around here aren’t guilty of the same. Maybe it’s easier to let go, however, since there is more diversification of emotional investment. Whatever.
By way of the olive branch, Al you are more astute than most Gopher or Sioux fans. It’s a lot more fun to focus on hockey talk rather than debating the morality of hockey (unless there are beers involved as previously noted). No one wants to acquiesce to criticism of their squad’s behavior, it’s proven a fruitless debate.
So Bouche… stop provoking for the sake of it. Why don’t you come with some positivity?
Amen. Quote of the day.
Hockey is for sinners. Burn, heathens.
OK, OK. Hockey talk:
The Sioux have a nice unbeaten streak rolling but, as is so often the case with these things, I don’t think their record tells the story. They’ve actually been playing some mediocre hockey as of late, but getting lucky. UAA outshot the Sioux 36 to 10 two weeks ago on Saturday but lost 3-1. UND’s shot totals are way down, and I realize that perhaps could be largely attributed to the fact that the teams they’ve beaten — Tech, Alaska — play the trap, or a variation. But the string of opponents in this unbeaten streak isn’t greatly impressive: SCSU, Tech, Mankato, Alaska, and then a Gopher team seemingly unable to score. I think the fact that UND split every series for the first 2/3 of the season is more indicative of where this team is at than the unbeaten streak or the power rankings on INCH which have UND at 3rd or something.
Some bright spots: I’m confident with Lamoreux. He keeps his head in the game and anchors the team night in and night out. Evan Trupp, even before the UM series, has seemed to get better every game. He’s scored some fantastic goals and has a great nose for the puck. Chay Genoway, who played forward at Shattuck on Duncan’s line (I think?) is playing great hockey and has gotten better throughout the year. And Oshie is a machine. He’s been playing hurt for four weeks, but you wouldn’t know it. He is incredibly strong with the puck as usual and if anything is increasing his defensive / backchecking efforts as well, which is the result of the first of the …
not so bright spots: Chorney, Genoway, and Jones are generally pretty trustworthy defensemen. Finley, LaPointe, Marto, even Bina — defensively speaking — have ranged from erratic to crummy. And the defensive parings always seem to have one person on the latter list, so there’s always at least one guy out there who’s likely to make an ill-advised pass in front of their own goal or turnover the puck.
The power play has dried up over the last two series, Duncan has not looked like the elite player he was last year in any phase of the game (even though he’s got a fair amount of points), and for some reason, the team seems to have random periods of hockey when they might as well all be drunk.
I hope this unbeaten streak continues and moreover that it gives the team confidence which elevates some of their play. They can be a nationally-competitive team, but judging from where they’re at right now, I’d guess UND is overhyped. This is currently a middle-of-the-pack team that’s received more puck-luck lately than people care to admit. With Denver faltering recently, it seems like UND has the potential to make up the games DU has in hand and lay claim to second place, which is odd.
If I provoke, it’s only because there is all this wonderful, cold refreshing beer in the Badger state that goes months and months (and years and years) without being gulped down by scary Bertogliat impersonators. Last I checked, the border inspection program between MN and WI is not stopping Moens (or the like) from driving East on I94…
Perhaps when Barb and Dean end their ongoing, 12 year boycott of Madison, Wisconsin I will be less provocative.
“We really like Madison. We should come and visit when the Sioux play…”
Old time hockey!
C’mon, you should be able to figure out how to do a link by now. You just highlight some text, click LINK, and paste in the URL. I’ll fix it for you.
That was interesting. Never really thought about the smell of the gloves before.
The face wash is fine, except that it’s overused in the college game because that’s about all they have available to them. It gets kind of old when it happens every single time the goalie covers the puck.
Old time hockey!
Bouche: Is leaving the game early “Old time hockey”? Just because you are losing 3-0 to the Mavs, doesn’t mean you can just leave
I accept your low blow. The childrens were enjoying the lively atmoshere (the band, the students, the proportion of fans under the age of 75, the lack of oxygen bottles, etc.) but the youngest childrens started to get cranky. The decision to leave after the 2nd period was made by the mother. I was happy for Jutts but unpleased with the scoreboard. So we went home and I consoled myself with GH3! Through the Fire and the Flames!!!
Prediction
Friday: Bucky 2 - Goldy 2
Saturday: Bucky 4 - Goldy 1
Please (PRETTY PLEASE) play Frazee! You know he’s your best bet between the pipes.
And for the sake of all visitors to Mariucci this weekend, I sure hope there are no oxygen bottle mix-ups and/or collisions.
Frazee will ride pine.
Die Bucky!
F- Goldy 1 Bucky 1
S- Goldy 2 Bucky 2 (OT)
Buck Fucky.
F: 2-0 Goldy
S: 2-1 Goldy OT
2 goals on the weekend for Gordon
And I bet the Sioux get in a fight.
Who do the Sioux play? Oh, wait, it doesn’t matter.
3-0 Bucky
2-1 Bucky
The Sioux play Bemidji on a Sat/Sun series, both games at 3 in the afternoon because of the ND H.S. state tournament.
Obviously my green goggles are never more tinted than when the Sioux are playing the Gophers, but I can see a little more clearly when playing a team like Denver, and the brawl last Saturday made absolutely no sense. After 2 periods, DU had put up 9 shots to UND’s 20 , UND was winning 3-1, and as the teams filtered into the locker rooms, Finley and Trupp (?) decide to charge into the DU crowd to start something?
Radke and the DU guy had, 8 minutes earlier, dropped the gloves which should be an automatic DQ (right?) but the refs stopped them before a punch was thrown and just gave them 10 minute misconduct penalties. Who rationalized that decision? (”no, they’ll cool off in the box, no one will fight afterwards”).
There are times to start fights and provoke the opponent, but 2/3 of the way through a dominating performance is not one of those times. And if I’m even pointing that out, then you really know something’s wrong.
4-2 Bucky (empty net goal)
3-1 Bucky
The INCH podcast just talked about fighting in college hockey, and had a few interesting thoughts. Some blame to the players, some to the coaches, and some to the refs. Unfortunately, with rule changes happening every year, the refs are struggling to keep order. And with fighting, in almost every case, the refs should have stepped in to stop it from getting to where it ended up.
I rarely blame refs for missing calls, or making bad calls, because that’s bound to happen in a fast paced game, but the refs MUST be able to keep order.
And Alex, I think you’re right. Dropped gloves equal game DQ.
I just want to add that I hate the Big Ten Network and Comcast. F*ck them both.
GOD DAMN BIG 10 NETWORK!!! NOW 12 MINUTES OF KELVIN SAMPSON BULLSHIT!!! NO COVERAGE!! I HATE THESE S.O.B.s!!!!
Just sent to Big Ten Network. Fans First? My ass.
It is understandable that Big Ten Network would want to follow (hype) the “Kelvin Sampson is gone” press conference. But to cut from the live event (MN-WI hockey) and not offer a cut-away screen/split screen/etc. is unacceptable. Perhaps Big Ten Network was trying to not be “scooped” by ESPN. Whatever the reason, to “come back” to the hockey game “already in progress” two goals later is a joke. Thanks for ruining my Friday evening.
We all know the Gophers suck this year but holy cow is Wisconsin pretty sucky as well.
— Big Ten Network wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Thanks for the note.
>
> It’s always a tough call whether to pre-empt LIVE games for important news
> or not.
>
> However, in this case, we felt it was necessary to cover such an important
> story, a story very pertinent to the Conference we are dedicated to
> covering.
>
> Thank you again for the note.
>
> -Big Ten Network
The Big Ten Network might suck, but at least they posted game highlights.
Wow, 8 goals and 3 points on the weekend for the Gophers. Don’t think anyone predicted scores like that.
Giving up that tying goal really sucked. We had a few good chances in the third to get a two goal lead but it just didn’t happen. But still, this was a much needed good weekend for the Gophers.
I love playing with the Sioux Sports What-if Calculator at this point in the season. Wisconsin really needed more points against MN since they only have one series left this year. They are currently in 4th, but could easily lose home ice for the first round by any of the Minnesota teams.
Current Standings:
Team GP Pts
CC 24 37
UND 24 33
Denver 24 31
UW 26 25
Mankato 24 24
SCSU 24 24
UMD 24 21
UMN 24 20
MTech 24 18
AA 26 11
Edina
Benilde
Roseau
Hill Murray
____________
Benilde
Roseau
____________
RAMS
Bouche, what about your class A picks?
Edina
Benilde
Blaine
Hill Murray
—
Benilde
Hill Murray
—
Benilde
I’m picking what I want to happen, even though it rarely happens that way.
Edina
Benilde
Roseau
Hill Murray
—
Edina
Roseau
—
Edina
Class A? Why would anyone care about who finishes in 137th place??
My biggest issue with the tournament is that Lakeville is in Sec 1 with Rochester, and Anoka is in Sec 8 with Duluth. Suburban teams should not be part of those sections, but it came to be because of a lack of AA teams in both areas. Go back to 1 class, let 16 teams into the tourney and let them go at it. Now is the time.
The A teams in the metro area will be the only teams to suffer but most of the tourney teams are private school and should be playing up anyways. Outstate A teams will still be able to compete against the AA outstate teams.
Edina wins 5-0. Completely dominated. Nice game by the Edina goalie as well. He needs to play well for Edina to win it all.
Excellent. Now let’s go Roseau.
Where the hell is the live web stream???
Here is a list of committed players in the tourney:
Edina: Zach Budish (Minnesota), Marshall Everson (Harvard), Joe Gleason (North Dakota)
Benilde-St. Margaret’s: Chris Student (Northeastern), Matt Berglund (Providence)
Roseau: Aaron Ness (Minnesota), Mike Lee (St. Cloud), Nick Oliver (St. Cloud)
Mankato West: Corey Leivermann (Mankato)
Blake: Josh Birkholz (Minnesota), Jack Barnes (Army)
St. Thomas Academy: Ryan Walters (Minnesota)
St. Cloud Cathedral: Nate Schmidt (Minnesota)
Little Falls: Ben Hanowski (St. Cloud)
Warroad: Bryce Ravndalen (St. Cloud)
Bouche:
Radio and TV Info
Roseau just barely beat Blaine tonight, getting 4 goals and 2 assists from Tyler Landman in a 8-2 win. I really thought Blaine had a chance, especially after only losing 1-0 up in Baudette Bay earlier this year. Though maybe the -40 temps had more to do with that game then anything else.
edina’s on a mission this year after being ousted by rapids last year in the 1st rnd. roseau should be able to handle the hornets, but edina, like i said, is on a mission. should be the game of the year. maybe the super bowl all over again??
Hey Lou, I think you are in favor of the city teams a little too much. Your state hockey tourney refs don’t call the serious penalties they should be.There have been pleanty elbows & hooking in the BSM/EDINA. Now HillMurry /Roseau lots of serious penelties on camera and not called. They would have made a difference in outcome of alot of these games! You and the Hockey League should make sure you have more whistles on the ice. The tourney is always great,and all the teams should feel special just for making it that far!
Well, don’t know what happened to Roseau last night. I watched the stream…of course I missed the Edina game.
Seemed that the Rams bench was just a little too short. Yes, the Hill Murray goalie made some saves…but he didn’t make any stunning saves that defied the laws of physics. Hard to understand.
E-D-I-N-A LET’S GO E-D-I-N-A
Well, that sucks. Roseau was completely out-muscled last night. Congrats to Hill Murray on playing a perfect game and beating what everyone thought was a perfect team.
Today’s final should be really good, maybe even a better matchup then Edina/Roseau. Edina and Hill are both big and strong, and they bring a history.
The third place game should also be really fun to watch. Both Benilde and Roseau and quick and talented, so the game should be wide open. I just hope Roseau cares enough to play to win.
Good point. Roseau likes to play their stars as much as possible. Ness was out there almost every other shift. He’s good, but you need fresh legs out there when you are getting beat up. By the third period, Ness was losing edges on every turn. That doesn’t happen when you aren’t exhausted.
Hill won by being physical. I’ve read that they normally aren’t a physical team, but did last night to take Roseau out of their game. The Rams want to play an up-tempo game and showcase their skill, but it’s hard to do that when you are getting hit every time, before and after the whistle.
Hill reminded me a lot of North Dakota. Play physical, maybe even cheap, but it was very effective.
WCHA playoff predictions:
Round 1
CC over Alaska in 2
UND over Tech in 3
Denver over Duluth in 2
UM over Kato in 3
SCSU over WI in 2
Final Five
Play-in: SCSU over UM, 4-2
UND over Denver, 3-1
CC over SCSU, 4-2
CC over UND, 2-1
3rd place: SCSU over Denver, 4-3
Round 1:
CC in 2
UND in 2
UD in 2
UM in 3
WI in 3
Final Five:
Play in: UM over UW, 3-2 OT
UND over DU, 4-1
CC over UM, 3-2
UND over CC, 3-2 OT
3rd place: DU over UM, 2-1
Very interesting mini-disection of some of the heaping pile of music at SXSW. 6 words to review the 763 SXSW Mp3s via The Morning News.
Booo! No 314: Iota (from UT) only gets one circle. Delz… Mark? You’ve been usurped!
I actually posted this a couple days ago, but yeah, it’s very cool.
They are from Utah, therefore are no threat to us. We could totally take them.
Note above the two series which I predicted would go 3 games. I like the odds that UND and UM will come out with wins on Sunday as well.
Did you watch the UND game last night? People on SiouxSports were really upset with the way they played. Was it that bad? I have to think that losing last night was a good thing. I’m not a fan of going into the tourney with a big winning streak like that, but it will be forgotten as long as they take care of business tonight.
As for the Gophers, they should have won on Friday night, should have lost last night, so I have no idea what will happen tonight. I like our chances, as maybe we’ve finally crossed that OT hurdle (first OT win, now 1-4-9), but who the f*ck knows anymore.
I really want the Gophers to win tonight as I’m just not ready for the season to be over and I don’t want tonight to be Wheeler’s last game (assuming he leaves). But it’s been a long year for the Gophers and maybe we should just be put out of our misery.
I was at Friday’s game but I had to miss last night and tonight’s games because my wife’s friends decided to have a baby shower in Minneapolis…. [ahem]. I alternated between the SCSU/UW game and the UM/MSUM game. My dad was at the UND game and said the Sioux were pretty complacent in the third period. Friday’s UND/Tech game was an excellent team effort by the Sioux. Shots after the first period on Friday were UND 14 and Tech 0. I just logged on to check the UND/Tech score, it looks like a repeat of last night - 2-1 Sioux after 2, but shots are 21-6 in favor of UND.
I saw the hit on Tom Pohl, that was awful to watch. I hope they were just being cautious and that it’s nothing serious.
If you’re still in town next weekend we should watch the Final Five games together (whether we are there or not)… Unless you are planning on going.
I’m going to San Francisco for a conference on Tuesday and I won’t get back until after midnight on Saturday morning (technically Saturday) — so the only games I’ll be around for are Saturday’s. If UND makes it to the championship I’ll probably go to it.
That first OT period was crazy. Great action for the full 20 minutes. Seems like Zacharias (sp) is more likely to give one up, but the Mavericks seem to be getting better scoring opportunities.
… if UND isn’t in the championship we should get together to watch that game, though. Maybe it’ll be UM vs. UND and we can both go to the game!
I don’t know if I’d go to the game with you. I’d hate to swear in front of your kid when we win
GPL is KILLING ME.
Tony Lucia in post game: We knew we had to do it, Gophers just don’t not make the NCAAs. Amen.
Also, to Gorg, say hi to Kangas for me, he saved our butts.
Nice win Gophers.
How green is your beer? No, no. I don’t mean that dyed crap in the plastic cup that you got at O’Gara’s last night. I mean the brewers who “use organic ingredients and incorporate renewable energy, efficiency and recycling into their businesses (Portland Press-Herald).”
Check out this list from the Sierra Club.
link didn’t work, try it again
Sierra Club The Green Life
Wow, what a great game last night. Gophers score in the first 20 seconds and the final 13 seconds of the game. Kangas is just playing out of his mind right now.
Some have said all season that the Gophers were just a key goal in quite a few games from being one of the top in the conference. Looks like we finally got our bounces last night and it couldn’t have happened at a better time.
That said… I hope we lose tonight. We really need the rest, and, assuming the Sioux win today, I’d much rather watch them play a fresh CC for the championship then against a Gopher team that wouldn’t have much left in the tank.
Or maybe we are a team of destiny and will win it all!
Funny — after picking the first round of the WCHA playoffs perfectly, I picked the final five perfectly wrong, choosing DU to lose twice, SCSU to win twice, and CC to beat UND for the championship. Oh well. Good games this weekend, I think it really showed how closely matched WCHA teams are.
Here’s my NCAA picks:
East — Michigan over Niagara, SCSU over Clarkson
West — UNH over Notre Dame, CC over Mich. St.
Midwest — UND over Princeton, Denver over WI
Northeast — Miami over Air Force, BC over MN
Frozen Four participants — Michigan, CC, UND, BC
If it’s UM vs CC and UND vs BC, I pick Michigan vs. UND and Michigan to win
If it’s UM vs UND and CC vs BC, I pick UND vs CC and UND to win
I know it’s not logical.
Oh, and if it’s UM vs BC and UND vs. CC, I pick UND vs Michigan and UND to win
I was at the Saturday third place game between CC and UND, and UND looked very good, but it so hard to judge a team in that game. Obviously, MN had success because of Kangas, but that just showed that they are (and have been all season) a team that just needs a few bounces to go their way and they can beat anyone.
I’ll pick the exact same regional games as you, but MN over BC.
East — Michigan over Niagara, SCSU over Clarkson
West — UNH over Notre Dame, CC over Mich. St.
Midwest — UND over Princeton, Denver over WI
Northeast — Miami over Air Force, MN over BC
And the Frozen Four would be Michigan, CC, DU, MN
According this USCHO bracket (pdf), the FF is Northeast vs Midwest and East vs West. So, DU over MN (again) and Michigan over CC. Michigan is the champion.
Go Gophers.
Here’s a question for Alex. If the Sioux happen to win it all, how does this team rank with some of the Sioux teams from the last 5-7 years?
Better goaltending? Parise was pretty darn good as well.
Better scorers? I’d say Toews, Parise, Bochenski were all better then Oshie.
I think what it would show is just how unimportant talent really is come tournament time. It’s all about getting the breaks, getting lucky, and playing against the right opponent in the right year.
There has been a lot of controversy about Mankato not making the NCAAs, while the Badgers, a sub .500 team, did. Here is the best explanation of what happened - and funny that it came from a guy that just started covering college hockey.
NCAA hockey: Explaining the unexplainable, why Minnesota State Mankato is out
This is the first of many rants I am brewing in my crazed brain re: Bucky making it in and the Mavericks being screwed over.
From Mr. Hartman, we have this:
Selected by computer
As chairman of the NCAA men’s hockey selection committee, Gophers athletic director Joel Maturi is getting some criticism because Wisconsin received an at-large bid to the tournament while Minnesota State Mankato did not. But the teams that get the bids are determined by computer rankings, meaning the sub-.500 Badgers (15-16-7) were the sixth WCHA team in the tournament, rather than the Mavericks (19-16-4).
“We, as a committee, seed the people, but we have nothing to do with which 16 teams make the field. So, this was all determined by the PairWise numbers,” Maturi said.
“For hockey, it’s completely done by that, and as it turned out, going into the weekend Minnesota State Mankato was ahead of Wisconsin, but due to who won and who didn’t win, and it has to do with your record, your record vs. your opponents and your opponents vs. their opponents. And because of that, Wisconsin was able to make the tournament.”
OK, Joel, if it’s “completely done by that” then why even have a committee? What purpose is there to have a committee? Seeding only? Very hard to believe that there is NOTHING subjective that goes into the process.
1) How is Bucky allowed to play at home? Is that not subjective? Why wasn’t Goldy “rewarded” with a trip to the Kohl Center as the higher PWR team? Certainly would be easier for Goldy’s aged fanbase to drive 4 1/2 hours to Madison (well, not the Moens because it might snow…unless they were going to Florida, in which case they just might drive) than to fly out east.
2) People, let’s get something straight–PWR represents an algorithm. The algorithm SUBJECTIVELY ranks certain components. The ranks can be considered a proxy for regression coefficients–component x is slightly more important than component y by a factor of z%. The coefficients, when combined together into an equation, deliver a PWR value. Ever heard of the BCS from college football? You know the deal where every other year they have to tweak the formula because some SEC school gets screwed over in favor of Ohio State or Oklahoma? Bad coefficients.
3) Bucky lost to the Mavs twice, tied once, and won once. The Mavs, who should have beaten a tenacious (and soon to be out of gas) Goldy team, were a superior squad to both Goldy and Bucky all season. Head to head, obviously a factor in PWR, does not outweigh common opponent weights? RPI? RPI? Confirm that one more time–RPI? Strength of schedule in college fucking hockey? Are you kidding me? That is not subjective? Tell me–how does the RPI factor in the migration of stud players for the World Juniors? Is there a “Blake Wheeler playing/not playing” flag that gets triggered when two Goldy common opponents are compared?
Keep in mind, I’m a Bucky season ticket holder. I’m all for Bucky kicking ass. But fair is fair–this is just plain wrong.
If you would have read the link I posted and emailed you, you would realize that it wasn’t even between Bucky and Mankato. Both teams should have been in. Notre Dame should have been left out and not Mankato.
You do realize that they are the host school and were predetermined to host if they got in. Sam with CC. No shady dealings here.
Quit your complaining, you’re starting to sound like a Sioux fan.
Let me also add that the coaches all agreed to this system when it was established. Will this spark changes? I hope it will and expect it to. But once you agree on a system, you can’t just change it because you want to.
Oh, and another thing. Had the refs not blown that call in the Bucky game against Denver, this would all be a lost point anyway. Bucky would be in.
I would be floored if the Sioux won it all this year, mostly because of my own gut feeling watching this team all season long. You know that sense you get when your team is really, really good? Hasn’t happened much for me this year. UND strung together a lot of wins, but their schedule was more difficult in the first half of the year, and a lot of those wins were very close.
Hypothetically, if they won, I’d say they’d be on par with the 2000 team that won it all, surprising a lot of people.. Blake, Panzer brothers, Commodore, Goehring…
but in the last 5-7 years? Not sure. Statistically, this has been the best defensive team in UND history, second in WCHA history to a DU team in the late 1960s. So I suppose that would be their legacy.
I liked Jordan Parise better than Lamoreux (and Goehring better than both of them combined), but I think Oshie is really, really good. He’s had an injured hip for weeks, and has been playing during this entire streak at 60%, according to coaching staff. Bochenski scored a lot of goals but he wasn’t a playmaker, more of a garbage goal guy. Toews and Parise have more talent than Oshie, I think, but they weren’t as strong on the puck as Oshie is, and in a league where playmakers are continually mugged, I think Oshie copes much better. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen him get knocked down in the corners with the puck when he then gets up and still maintains possession, being hacked the whole time. Plus he’s more of a two-way guy than Toews. I think Oshie is the best UND forward, all things considered, since Jason Blake. I could compare stats between Toews, Parise, Bochenski, and Oshie but I sense that Henry is getting into trouble.
What I saw of Bochenski I remember him a sniper, not really a garbage guy. Lots of wristers from the circles and the slot. He made his mark with his shots, not his skates. Am I crazy?
Still, I think the Sioux in the finals wouldn’t be surprising at all. They’ve got all aspects of the game working for them when they want it to. Offense, defense, the physical game. It’s all strong with them.
Of course I read the link you sent before I posted. Does that link answer anything? No. I don’t care that Bucky was not the issue, but Notre Dame vs. Mankato was. I don’t care that Bucky had a sub-500 record. I don’t care that Bucky was the team “screwed over” last year (Mike Eaves is such an ass to bring that up and put it in Jutting’s face).
None of those things matter. Bucky does not deserve to be in the final 16 ahead of Mankato. Coaches agreed in advance to an algorithm? Big hairy deal. Who made up the algorithm? I assure you that we could make an algorithm, just like USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin.htm).
We could create our own version of a poll with SAS (http://www.sas.com/).
Like the Coaches Poll or the former NYTimes Poll or whatever other deceased poll, our poll could, for a period of time, advance into the NCAA college hockey landscape and become a determining factor in how the teams get picked.
Hockey has a chance, unlike basketball and unlike football, to allow the season’s best teams to compete for the championship. Because it is not viewed as a revenue sport, it is less encumbered by the Jim Delaneys/$$$ of college sports. Instead, you have Bucky playing at home? Is that not an advantage? Having the Final 5 at the Xcel kind of gives an edge to Goldy (year in/year out), don’t ya think? How a marginal team makes the final 16 and then gets handed home ice for the weekend? Where in any of this madness is there objectivity?
The other thing which influences my earlier comments is that, living in St. Paul, I barely had a chance to see the Sioux play from 2001-2005 except when they’d play the Gophers on FSN, when they were in the Final Five, or when I happened to be passing through GF. The last two seasons, living up here, I’ve only missed about 6 home games.
My memories of Bochenski are seeing him camped on the left wing, one-timing passes from across the crease and rebounds from slapshots. I don’t remember much of him as a sniper but again I didn’t see him play all that often.
I should clarify that I don’t think Oshie is more talented than Parise or Toews, but more suited for success in the WCHA than they were.
Painful as it is to lose, justice was served.
Go Sioux.
Are you starting to get that feeling now? Nice win for the Sioux.
Just a quick Gopher recap.
2007/08 - GF/GA - 113/110
2007/08 - GF/GA - 167/103
Wow. To go from a 64 to a 3 and to still make the NCAAs was quite a feat for this team. Thank you Seniors (and maybe Wheeler) for a wonderful career as Gophers.
That was an exciting win, but not the kind of win that inspires confidence — this formula of playing the other team even for period 1, coming out with lead boots for period 2, and then firing up when their back is to the wall in period 3 has been happening all season long. I would love to see season-long stats comparing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd periods for UND — period 2 has been terrible all year long.
I am elated with both of those wins in the regional and I’m looking forward to the UND/BC matchup — 2 teams who have come up empty handed in recent years despite repeated trips to the frozen four — but I’m still not particularly confident UND will win because they so rarely turn in a complete game, playing for 60 minutes with the intensity they’re capable of. I do, however, feel even better about Lamoreux. Stood on his head.
I would love to see Notre Dame beat Michigan, too.
Good weekend of hockey, even though the WCHA didn’t fare too well. I’d hate to be a Miami fan almost as much as I’d hate to be a SCSU fan… what are they in the NCAA’s now, 0-8? 0-10?
You know, if I were the government, and my clandestine agencies had discovered a massive threat to America, to be perpetrated via the airlines once again (not likely, but hypothetically), and I needed to shut down air travel, but I hadn’t been able to track down the suspects yet, I would totally run a spin story about thousands of planes needing to be grounded for outdated technology concerns. Then I would take a fine-tooth comb to the remaining flights looking for terrorists to impatiently show their hands.
I’m not saying… You know. But just saying.
I think you’re on to something. Or on something. One or the other.
Interesting theory. I tend to believe that it’s just airlines sucking as usual.
A valid and demonstrable “massive threat to America” is the Bush Administration’s wet dream. The last thing they would want to do is cover it up in the interests of preventing panic and fear. This administration’s engine is fueled with the stuff.
Go Sioux!
I completely agree, unless concerns of the economy completely crashing would trump any political maneuvering.
The economy IS crashing.
Wait, what?
I missed that, I was falling past the window too fast.
Yeah, but they don’t admit to that… yet.
Wow, that was ugly. Lammy let in some softies as BC was able to counter the Sioux’s strong fore check with some quick goals at the beginning of the game.
Michigan vs Notre Dame started out just as bad, ND up 3-0, but Michigan fought back and it’s now 3-2
I thought I had posted this long ago…don’t think it made it through the Censor’s filters. So, I’ll try again and add a second inquiry.
1) The question must now be asked. Pheonix Coyotes. Wayne Gretzky. Kyle Turris. Blake Wheeler. Why is the former one and done but the latter still remains an undergrad? Were the comments about the long-haired hippy coach on target? Is Garth Snow a truth-teller?
2) What happened to Guentzel as your assistant coach??
1. Which would you rather have? In five years are you even going to remember you had a player like Turris? And Wheeler is no longer an undergrad. He is taking grad school classes, meaning he graduated in three years.
2. Don’t know yet. Haven’t heard any rumors of bad feelings or anything like that. He may be a head coach somewhere else soon, or not, we don’t know yet.
Four overtime hockey, no matter what kind of hockey, is awesome. 1:24AM — GOAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO LIE! JUST AS I WAS POSTING THIS!
Unbelievable. I went to bed after regulation, but it looked like it wasn’t going to end anytime soon. So glad that the Stars won. For some reason I’m ok with a Texas team winning, but not one from Cali.
If you haven’t seen the highlights yet of this game, check it out.